22.7.2001

Good evening children. From today we change the complete format of this meeting. My son, you must convey to my son, Sohrab that the meetings will now extend to 1-½ hours. The meeting will jointly be conducted by the High Lord and myself. Some questions he will answer, and others I will. When you sit in your circle we insist that you be in your places by a quarter of an hour to five o’clock. You will no more hold hands as the circle is now extended to the walls of this room and beyond. So the circle will be joined by guides from our side. You will now join yourself to the very nature and its elements. Starting from whoever sits on the right hand of this child, while the prayers are being chanted, you will join to Mother Nature. If that child can touch both palms to the earth that would be perfection itself. But we understand that there are those in your group who may not be able to do this. They need only turn their palms downwards to mother nature and connect to the energy of the earth. After the earth, the one sitting on the right of that child will connect to water. Son, you must provide a shallow but wide enough dish for the water element to be placed. Again turning the palms downwards that child must connect to water energy. Then comes fire. And the child to the right of the second child. That child will hold a candle. It may be as large or small a candle as that child desires, and it is to be held till the candle burns out. The next element is the ether. Again the child sitting to the right of the previous child. That child will hold the palms up, connecting to ether. The next element is air: again to the right. This little child should be given a small flower to hold in his hands and the one to his right will also connect to air, through flowers. The entire cycle will then be repeated: earth, water, fire, ether and air. Do not be concerned if the next cycle finishes before air is reached. Those sitting outside the circle (though now there is no ‘outside’) must also give us their energy. They will place their palms on the walls of this home, so that not only you but the very hearts of the walls of this home are also blessed. If there is no one sitting outside, then my son, you must place your palms on the walls.

Q: Sir, that means I will have to get up?

You can get up and move freely now, as there is no bound circle made by you. We now wish to open up our circle to all. Yes, we still wish you to continue with this arrangement of sitting because we do not wish to be haphazard. But, my son, you may leave a small gap, if desired or continue in this way if that is what you desire. But please ensure that there is no ‘outside the circle’ feeling. Of course, due to lack of space you will still have to keep moving your positions. And that can be done in exactly the same manner. Those who are not part of the initial circle may be taken in if they desire and if they are sure that they will be able to come regularly. There is no compulsion. Please my son; ensure that those who are outside know this. But we insist on regularity because we do not want empty spaces when they could be filled in. Do you understand?

Q: Sir, if somebody from the regular group is not there that empty space is still to be maintained?

Yes. That is only for the sake of uniformity and discipline. You know the chaos that went on before.

The prayers will also be differently said. You may start with your prayers as you are now. But immediately after the prayers, before the opening prayer is chanted, the group together will repeat the name of the Lord Ahura 21 times. It need not be done at one pace. Let each one chant at their own pace. When you are repeating the name Ahura, each one will draw concentric circles in an anti clockwise direction starting from this center (of the circle) and moving outwards till it encompasses your concept of the universe. Those who are new to the group, or those who are attending the meetings very infrequently, can just chant the name without drawing the circles. But once the sitter becomes regular in attendance you must explain this to the sitter. After this has been done, (and concentric circles are drawn) then start with your opening prayer, which now will be different.

My child here, will then pray whichever prayer she desires and then the OM will be chanted, my children, not five times but nine times.

Any questions?

Q: Sir, those outside the circle and sitting in the middle, how will they touch the walls?

They will get up and touch. There is no restriction now to your getting up. If you desire, at some point to get up and switch on a light, you may do so.

Q: Sir, the concentric circles; do we visualize them, or do them physically?

Whatever is comfortable to you.

Q: Sir, but no sitting on the floor within the circle?

No, and that is because this child when she moves must not be hindered in any way.

Any further questions?

None, Sir.

Now we come to the part that you will enjoy. Food. (All laugh)

Oh, you all love that part, and that is good, because it is that part of the Sunday that makes you all close to each other. It is not the meeting. (All laugh)

Child, (NS), I am glad to see your heart light. You went away with a very heavy, troubled heart. You have come back anew.

Yes, Sir. Thank you Sir.

The food. We request that no non-vegetarian food be served. There is a reason for this request. Now with format, my children, many of you will come out of the meeting ‘tingling’, because your energy will be very, very high. Many will find that on Sunday you will not be able to sleep very early. Do not let yourself be bothereed. When this high energy is present within you, why do you wish to destroy it by consuming something that necessarily needs lower energy levels in order to be consumed. So no non-vegetarian food, not even eggs.

Q: Sir, cakes? (All laugh)

Q: What about dairy products, Sir?

That is perfectly all right.

Q: Sir, but cakes?

That we will permit. When we say no eggs, we mean that they should not be consumed in large quantities. In fact, even the coffee that you have is not very desirable.

Q: Because of the caffeine, Sir?

Yes.

Q: Sir, but I have coffee only once a week at the meeting.

That is sad.

You may continue with your coffee otherwise this child of mine may not allow me to continue with the meetings. She has told me on many occasions "Sir, do not give me any of your diets. I will not follow them."

That is why she is as ill as she is now. So we will not. When we see stubbornness, we allow that stubbornness to continue till finally she will realize that she needs a diet to bring her back to health. Till then she will be ill. And none of you must try to change her. Let her carry on. Food plays an important part in her life. That is what is not desired. Food is only there to help you to survive as high vibratory beings. You all have taken food to another level of enjoyment. And that is why you are so attached to it. Your days are spent around your meals. If we were to give you the right diet that you should follow you would all be aghast.

Q: Sir, please try us.

Child, the right diet for anyone is the leaves and flowers of trees, eaten raw.

Q: Fruits, Sir?

Fruits, yes, but because, my children, several fruits before they reach you are not as fresh, their very staleness takes away from your vibrations. And that is the problem with your modern world. You eat so much that is not fresh. Look at the birds and animals around you. They will not eat what they instinctively know is not fresh. That is why they prefer to bite off the plant itself. They do not wait for the fruit to fall to the ground.

But you have a long way.

Q: Sir, but we in modern cities do not get anything fresh, not even air.

Yes, and that is why you have to take even more strenuous steps to ensure that your food does not bring down your vibratory level.

Q: Sir, please name some of the leaves and flowers that we can consume.

Child, I will not even waste the time doing that because you have not reached that stage. It is good that you have this desire to what we tell you is right, but you must do it when the time is right, otherwise by compelling your physical body to do what it is not ready to do, you are just creating more problems for yourself. And we do not want that.

Q: Sir, the Red Indians who consumed red meat because they didn’t have that kind of vegetation around, used to ask the animal for forgiveness before consuming it.

The Red Indian, my son, was linked to the food he ate. For him it was not food. My son, the Red Indian never ate because he enjoyed the taste. He ate because he knew that he required food in order to go ahead. And that is a great difference from you. You do not because of that; you eat only because you enjoy. If only you could find enjoyment in growth. And that is why when the Red Indian killed the animal, because he knew of the link between his soul and that of the animal, and he knew that once he too had been where the animal was now, he didn’t quite ask forgiveness, but he allowed the understanding of one soul to merge with the understanding of another. The deer would lie down and allow itself to be killed when such an understanding was conveyed to it. The deer gave up its life because the deer understood that its role in that world was that.

Q: Sir, when they ate meat, didn’t it lower their vibrations?

Oh, no. Because, my son, they were born with vibratory levels which you have to try to reach. They did not have to try they came with them. And they were earth people. One with all earth. Fire, water, air, ether, they were one. There was no separation. And it was very, very sad that the modern world instead of learning from them killed those very beings that could have helped them.

Q: Sir, my extended question is that wouldn’t it help us if we did the same sort of thing with everything that we consume, not just meat?

With anything, my son, it would help. Do you remember, when we spoke to you of karma, to recognize the God within?

Yes, Sir.

Recognize the God within everything. Whether it be a leaf, or fruit, a tree, a fish or a large animal, recognize the god within. Once you recognize the god within, my son, you will ask yourself whether you really need to kill that animal. You will ask if you are not really killing the god within you.

Q: Sir, were the Incas and Mayans also that evolved?

Extremely. They were even more than the Red Indians. That civilization, my son, was one with the Divine Source, because they were so much earlier. The separation has become greater and greater as man has moved out of himself. And now he only leads an external life. They did not move out of themselves and that is why they were such an advanced civilization. Their knowledge of the sciences, my son, has not even been touched by the scientists of today. But, as happens with all civilizations, this same knowledge finally turned against them. Knowledge is a double-edged sword. You can use it to grow or you can use it to go; go away from the Source.

Q: They were responsible for their own destruction?

Yes, because they then became a civilization that was proud of all that they did. And the early Incas and the early Mayans voluntarily left the earth because they did not wish to survive in an atmosphere of separation. But, even today, my son, even today, if you go a site where their civilization flourished and if you sit in the silence of the atmosphere, you will find a peace, a strength and an energy so strong that you will be rooted to that spot for hours. They have left behind their energies so that those who come after them can use that energy. But it has not been used. The time is not long when the energies left behind by such civilizations, when the energies left behind by ancient Tibetans, all will come together and your earth will evolve into a new planet.

Q: Sir, is there any place closer to home where we can visit?

Son, do not look to go anywhere. Look to making it yourself. Your own home can become such a place if you so desire it.

Q: Sir, why am I again sensing a lot of negativity in the atmosphere?

Because it is there. It is there and it will continue to be there. Once again, in the very near future you will be seeing another large natural calamity.

Q: Sir, is there anything we can do to help?

You cannot help. The natural disaster is help in itself.

Q: Sir, I meant prior to it. Is there anything we can do to avoid it?

Why do you want to avoid a sweeping away of the negativity?

Q: Sir, I guess it is because we feel for them.

Feel for them and give them the strength. That is all.

Q: Sir, will it be a cleansing?

One of the many to follow.

Q: Sir, I was reading the latest book of Ruth Montgomery, where she says that India will be become a much smaller peninsula. Are we in the target area?

You are in the target area, my son, wherever you are.

Q: Sir, I have friends who have physically moved to Canada and New Zealand saying that those were the safe areas. Is there any relevance to this?

Son, some have gone because that is where their final destiny lies. Some have gone because that is where their final destiny will end.

Q: Sir, are the Arcturians already amongst us?

Here? (Everyone laughs)

No, Sir, I meant the earth.

They are there but they have not yet come to your planet. But they are certainly well within the atmosphere of your planet. And they are not the only ones. There are a large number of helpful beings waiting for the right time to come.

Q: Sir, our friend in the sky is back.

Now, when you see your friend, as you call him, think, my son, what has gone before and what is going to come. And then you will realize when you see it. Then you will know why.

Q: Sir, Baba told me this whole thing when I was talking about this whole karma that I am building up with him and I spoke to your child and she said to ask you_____________And give your share of happiness to people. Every time I am building up karma with him, I am giving it back to him. So..

Child, do you remember why we told you to feed another after a private meeting.

Yes, Sir.

That is all it is. If nature, through her various instruments, and we are also instruments of that same nature, if she helps you, then you help someone else who is also a part of nature. And that is what this hologram is all about. Nature gives you what you desire and you in turn, do a little bit of nature’s work for her. That is all there is.

Why do you all constantly ask for happiness? Why? Your world is a dual world, my children. Haven’t you all understood that? When you ask for one side the other has to follow because of the duality that is there in your world. So you spend all your time asking for happiness. But, my children, with that will also come your unhappiness. Why do you ask for something that has a dual nature? Why can you not ask for something that has only unity? And that is JOY. Is there anything like un-joy?

Q: Sorrow, Sir?

No, there is only joy. Joy has no duality. Look at your word "enjoy". To make the joy be manifest is en-joy. It means to make the joy be manifest. And so your every moment must be an endeavor towards en-joy. Not towards the illusion and transience of happiness. What is happiness? Her (pointing to one of the sitters) happiness may cause her (pointing to another) unhappiness. And is that what she then desires? But no joy can cause anything other than joy.

Now let us continue with illnesses…

Q: Sir, your child had asked me to ask a question on her behalf. I was telling her about an incident where a person has gone and defrauded so many people. Even resulting in some of them committing suicide because of their situation. And she was extremely angry that you that we believe in karma, that this was a contract that they had undertaken…She was very keen that I ask this question. She was very extremely upset.

We have been ticked off.

Yes, Sir, very severely.

And we are quivering. (Loud laughter)

If you have no questions on illnesses, we can take on this subject of karma, which is still debated amongst you all.

Q: I have one question, a mundane one. Is somebody trying to harm me? Because all my good servants are falling ill all the time.

Child, remember, when you enter a certain pathway those who are around you, whose energy fields cause conflict with you, will be made to fall away. Do not get yourself attached to anything. Those who are meant to come to you, now on this new pathway, will come. No one is causing you any harm. Your energy levels are now, slowly but gradually, changing. Do not attach yourself to anything or anyone that will cause conflict. Allow nature to do her bit.

Thank you, Sir.

Now let us take this man’s example. With your definition, yes, an evil man. Do we say that there is a contract? In this particular situation, yes and no. Let us look at both. Son, those who cause their own deaths, because of what this one man did, had come into this world, into this embodiment, with one express desire. To learn how to face upsets. Am I clear up to now? Now this one man, my son, has caused the same harm and even greater to others. But those others have not committed suicide. So this man cannot take the responsibility for the death of those who have. Yes, but in this there was no contract. He had not contracted with these to help them to learn their lesson. Are you with me? Because this is a totally different situation. This man’s lesson was to learn how to be good. Whether he has passed or failed in that test we are not here to sit in judgement. That was his lesson. That was a very broad contract. So you see, when I said yes and no, my son, there was a contract, yes. In that broad sense, my son, there is a contract with everything and everyone that you encounter. That contract, is not a personal contract between two souls. That is a contract that your higher self has made with nature. To give you experiences that you desire. In the course of these experiences will come others who have also made broad contracts with nature. If the two broad contracts dovetail, that encounter will take place.

In this case if this man had made a personal contract with the other, there would have been no karma. Is that understood? But he did not. His was a general blueprint of leading a life of good. Theirs were a general blueprint of trying to meet life’s battles with strength and courage. Now do you see where they dovetailed? So why is there karma? And what is karma? My children, you still have not understood and that is why this child is so angry. This child still, in spite of all our training, still thinks of karma as a punishment. And that is why she is angry with us when we talk of karma. Because according to her, wrong must be met with wrong. That is her personality. However much knowledge this child has, this personality trait is deep rooted. For her, wrong must be met with wrong. That is why punishment to her children. Isn’t that right, my son?

Bang on, Sir.

So, there is karma with this man. But karma is nothing else but a cause-and-effect situation. Because he did not have a contract, but still caused, what is seen as harm, to another there is a cause and effect situation that has arisen which you term "kar-ma". It might be better if you actually erased that word. Because it has so sadly been given such a wrong meaning by various writers and philosophers in the past. Karma is not retribution, it is not repentance, it is not punishment, it is not wrong for wrong, it is not an eye for an eye. None of this is karma. Because none of this can exist in the realm of love. It is only cause and effect. If I were to push this child, she would naturally fall on to the other side. Cause and effect. Is that karma? You have seen an example of karma. Now this man had a lesson to learn. We don’t say that he has failed, because this man is still alive. And nature will put before this man several, several, several other experiences. So he has not learnt the lesson till this present time. Now, the effect of moving away from your lesson: We will take for the purpose of discussion, an assumption that this man does not learn this lesson at all in this embodiment. So he has built up a lot of karma. Are you all with me? When he comes on to our side, he, and no one else, he will decide whether he has been successful or not. For all those experiences for which he feels there has been failure, he will take steps to work through them. Karma.

No one punishes him, no one tells him to repent, and no one gives him a path of retribution. No one, no one, will tell him that he has done wrong. He will do all that and more, for himself. Because he will enter the realm of love. In that realm of love he will understand the error of his ways. So when he takes a next embodiment he will look at all these errors that he has committed. And that is where, comes in, what you call "karmic retribution". Do you understand? Now this man will see for himself the harm he caused to ten. Now he has a choice. He may decide that ‘the only way I can feel comfortable as a soul is if I in turn, do some thing good for them’. That is one choice. He may, in turn, also decide that ‘because I have generally caused harm, I will now generally do good’. So you see karma is not an eye for an eye. He may also decide that ‘in spite of my trying so hard, I am not able to let go of this one path. So, may be, what will help me is to lead a life where others cause me harm, so that I understand what another goes through’. All three will be termed by you as "karmic retribution". Do you understand, my children? And now do you understand now why you all have debated so wrongly on this one issue?

Q: Sir, we have read about phrases and sentences that if you face your difficulties and learn lessons from them, we are able to work through your karmas… What does that mean?

Nothing! Son, it only means one thing. Let me take your own example, my son, with your landlord. Do you recall that we had told you of a karmic link? Yes. Now, if you are facing this one difficult situation, my son, and you have been helped by us by telling you that there is a karmic link, it may only be a karmic link with him specifically. It may be what you have undertaken to experience as a difficulty so that you experience what you might have done to another in the past. There is also another explanation. If you have undertaken a personal karmic link working out with him, you may have decided that ‘in order to understand what I did to him, I will allow him to do the same to me. But I will face that difficulty seeing the God within him’. Then, my son, there is no karma because you have reached a moment of God-realization. On the other hand, my son, you might have no karmic link with him personally at all. But nature has, by your command, given you an experience which you decided to take because of some karma, some cause-and-effect which you knew best. Do you now understand?

Q: Sir, do you think it is the same thing with me and my landlord?

Child, it is the same with you and anyone. It is the same with you and anyone. Please my children; do not think of this as wrong for wrong. Do not think that. And why do you always think of karma when someone does something bad? Why don’t you think of this when someone does something good? Now you will understand that cause and effect can occur when there is good and bad. But you may wonder why, for good there should be a cause and effect. It has been explained earlier, but I will do it. If you (pointing to one), my child, do good to this child (pointing to another) for a reason other than God-realization, there is cause-and-effect.

Q: Because of the expectancy, Sir?

That’s right. When there is God-realization, there is no expectancy. But, my children believe me when I say, that these moments in your life are rare. And that is what you need to work on. But that does not mean that you all stop doing good. It only means that you continue doing good, knowing that you still have not reached the moment of God-realization. That is all. And just as when you have harmed someone, there is a cause and effect, when you do good and come on to our side and you see the reason why you did what you did, again the effect will be that you will undertake to have an experience that will bring you closer to God-realization. And that is where karma will come into play.

Q: Sir, I’m a little confused about God-realization. For example, what NS does for her dogs, I don’t see how she could do this with any expectation.

She expects love from her dogs. She expects comfort and courage, all of which she gets. Let a dog treat her with contempt. Let a dog not acknowledge her…

N: I’d die, Sir.

Have you got your answer, my son?

Yes, Sir.

Q: Sir, when we come over to your side, is it that our life is flashed before our eyes...

All lives. Because this is only a minute. What would you look at in only a minute?

Q: Sir, is it possible for a soul to take on the characteristics of its physical embodiment, e.g. if I’ve been stubborn all my life …

Completely. But you have got the question wrong. It is not that the soul takes on the characteristic of the physical embodiment. The physical embodiment takes on the characteristics of the soul.

Q: So, Sir, the soul remains the same throughout …

Completely. That is why even your Masters have their own personality. That is why the High Lord is …

Z: That is why the High Lord is the way he is… (Laughter)

He is the one that you fear. You all do not laugh very readily with him, do you! Because the High Lord rarely laughs himself. And that is his personality. He has in all physical embodiments been one who has been very, very serious. You cannot change that.

Q: Sir, does that mean he would not like us to be light about this?

Ask him when he comes!

Oh no, Sir.

Q: Sir, if am a very stubborn soul, then when I am shown all my lifetimes when I am on your side, what if I am biased again as to what my decision is going to be in my next embodiment?

You have that freedom. We explained the last time, when you were not here, my son, how a soul decides what he wants to be when he returns. And this is exactly what comes in.

Q: Sir, does a soul necessarily come back to the same Earth? Can he go to another planet?

He can. To another planet of the same vibration.

Q: Sir, after being a human being can the soul decide to be an animal?

That, my child, would be a regression. You have to continue upwards. And that does not mean that we are running down your beloved animals. It is just that the soul levels are different.

Q: Sir, you have mentioned earlier that some of the Masters, who are manifestations of God, that God had come down here in human form. But afterwards when they pass on to your dimension, does the God still remain or do they remain Masters?

Son, you are all manifestations of God. You are all manifestations of god. There is nothing that is not. As soon as there is a separation from the divine source, that separate embodiment is a manifestation of God. That is all. So Masters remain Masters. Son, all the ascended Masters, and there are so many even far more ascended than we, have still not completely conquered their separation. And therefore, they still have separate identities although they are now a large part of the divine source. But there is no complete merging.

Q: Sir, I have read that most of the highest ascended masters have reached, on a scale of 100, only a level of 20%…

They have reached a scale of their own. There are no scales, my son. No ascended master and no soul can be compared to another. As soon as there is a comparison, my son, there is a judgment. Even when you fear, there is a judgment. So have you not judged me?

Sorry, Sir, I did not mean to judge anybody.

Yes, son. Your judgments we know are not deliberate. But they are judgments. And it is only when you recognize judgment that you will stop. All judgments come from selfishness. And what is selfishness? It is not a desire not to help another. You may be helping every person that you meet and yet you may be selfish. Helping others is not "un-selfish". "Selfish" is when your entire concentration is upon your small physical self. Are you, any of you, unselfishness? It is when you compromise, that you are unselfish. Look at the word "com-promise". Divide it up and you will find that it has two words: a promise made by two. When you go out of your physical self to do something for another, that is unselfish. You may help the entire world, but when a compromise is required and if your little self has to face any difficulty, you will say, "No". Is that not true? And then you turn around and call another selfish! Think of the last time you did something for another in spite of the fact that your little physical self had to undergo trouble. You will have to throw your minds back several, several years, if ever. No judgment, my son, because remember, words that you use are all used wrong. They are used with meaning that will put you into a good light. That is how you all use your words.

I desire no fear for you. Not even from my own self. I desire a dedication to the God within. And if I see none or if I see a reduction, I will be there to take care of that in my way. Because my love for you extends beyond self. I have made it a mission that souls like you will come to me. We do not want you to go through path after path after path. We want to hasten your evolution. And for that, my children, discipline is required. In discipline, there is no jest, in discipline there is no laughter, in discipline there is no lightness.

How many of you have read our words again? How many of you have lived our words? They are all neatly filed and put away in neat little boxes in your mind which make you feel proud of all the knowledge that you have; but when will wisdom dawn?

Children, do not be affronted by my dedication to discipline. It is my love, which encompasses you. Which sees you not for the physical embodiment that you are, but sees you as this wonderful luminous soul. And it is this luminous soul that is in my fold.

Hail!